Talk:Bruce Wayne (New Earth)
The reason why I added Robin under former aliases As revealed in the Untold Legends of Batman limited series from the 1980s, Bruce Wayne was in fact the first Robin. Ya gotta love John Byrne and his retcons. If a separate article is ever created specifically for the Pre-Crisis/Earth-One Batman, I'll remove the alias from this article and place it in the correct one. --Brian 09:56, 19 January 2006 (Eastern Standard Time) :*As promised - new article is made, so I removed the Robin alias and placed it under Batman (Earth-One). :--Brian 23:58, 1 July 2006 (Eastern Daylight Time) ----- Changed "history" subtitle to "Background of character" as listing seems more in line with dissertation of the overall characater, rather than specific detail for the actual printed fictional history specific to that of the modern incarnation of the character. Ugh, "Out-of-Universe" Just removed a buch of, well, crap copied over from Wikipedia probably. This article need some serious cleanup in terms of formatting and content. Roygbiv666 01:05, 25 March 2007 (UTC) Abilities In this section thre's a statement about "Through intense training, specialized diet, and biopathic feedback treatments, The Batman represents the pinnacle of human physical prowess." Do we have a reference for this biopathic thing? And in "Strength Level:" there's a bit about In Batman Begins we observe him perform a one arm Pec Fly of approximately 180lbs (the weight of an athletic adult male). Through mathematic extrapolation, we can safely assume that Batman can Bench Press Approximately 570 to 630lbs, and lift/press approximately twice his body weight above his head. His Leg Press capacity is well over 1500lbs (as evidenced by his ability to execute such considerable jumps and leaps) Aren't these articles supposed to be specific to the DCU, not movies and tv shows? Also, even if applicable, wouldn't this be considered "original research" and need to be excised/changed/referenced? Roygbiv666 20:30, 6 April 2007 (UTC) ethan bennet I think this stuff is from the current cartoon. should it be removed? :--Roygbiv666 15:39, 20 August 2007 (UTC) University Degrees The article is ambiguous - stating early on that he often dropped out of colleges after one semester, then stating he has multiple degrees. Which is it? --Roygbiv666 16:05, 25 December 2007 (UTC) :Currently Wayne is a college dropout and has no degrees. :Most writers in the Post Crisis reality, starting with Frank Miller in Batman #405 (1987), wrote Wayne having no college degree in order to complete Wayne's public persona as mostly brainless and lazy fool. :This conflict comes from having been changed in order to allow Wayne to have competed and join the FBI attaining the highest standing even considered for eventual directorship which allowed him to learn of and adapt the extensive tools and mastery of super-secret techniques and devices he uses in his personal crusade (without him having to have invented all of the crime fighting devices and analytic techniques himself as in the Earth-Two and Earth-One histories) after leaving the FBI for its ineffectiveness in disrupting crime directly leaving him an administrator. :Of course, this open skill mastery would leave too many people openly aware of Wayne's secret identity in-story. Most writers have removed his open intellect recognition from the character's background, and currently returned Wayne to being WITHOUT any college degrees. :Kal_l_fan 03:13, 20 Janaury 2008 There is a story that Bruce tells Leslie Thomkins that he went to multiple colleges and he had two personas. He took morning classes, in which, as Bruce, he wasn't so active in class by falling asleep and several other things. Then he had a more of a different identity he took into the night classes, in which, he did better in. He even broke into classes, using his stealth skills, possibly for practice, mainly, but he stole a lot of answers to the tests and studied them. I don't think this lasted long. He has reportedly dropped out several times. ~ J. A. R. Head ::Is there a citation, a currently valid story that shows that he has college degrees? MaGnUs 13:04, November 9, 2010 (UTC) :::Or one that shows that he doesn't... a citation for either would be nice. For now though, we're going to keep it at what we have until somebody can give us something concrete to disprove it... but it would be nice if we could actually get the specifics on any of these stories. ::::- Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 01:08, November 10, 2010 (UTC) :::::No use in invoking logic, is there? It's pretty obvious that in order to keep his playboy persona, he wouldn't be able to have several college degrees. MaGnUs 19:21, November 10, 2010 (UTC) I don't think that's something we can take for granted... it is not unheard of for somebody with a very good education to be perceived as a moron. Especially since Bruce doesn't pretend to be completely stupid anyway, just foppish and careless. If his secret identity depended on people thinking he was an idiot... then he's probably blown it already in many situations. :- Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 07:38, November 11, 2010 (UTC) :: That's true, however, I think the current data on this profile is exaggerated considering we don't have any references to stories that state he has such degrees. It should just say something like "College education, many different informal studies in different fields." MaGnUs 14:21, November 11, 2010 (UTC) Bruce Wayne's Age I'm just curious. There is anything in Batman page except his age. I mean he has three children. He was created 1938. Is there anyone who knows his age? --Akadirgun 17:29, 10 February 2008 (UTC) :Well, there are various DC chronologies that say things like "orphaned at 8", "spent x years training", etc. He's probably around 35. Keep in mind, he's been around as a fictional character since May, 1939, but within the fiction, he's relatively young, and has been re-invented several times. :--Roygbiv666 14:20, 11 February 2008 (UTC) ::Most writers put Wayne now being in his early 40s akin to Oliver Queen in order to have raised their one-time junior partners when they met and took in during their own late 20s to consider against their one time junior partner who were then young teenagers and are now all in their late 20s themselves. Though none of the series writers draw Wayne with greying hair -- yet. As in the recent imposter Batman storyline, Wayne has been written to comment about his job getting harder than it was, suggesting he is starting to get past his prime. ::Kal_l_fan 8:38, 16 February 2008 Ah, the classic dilemma. It raises an interesting question. Oldschool (i.e. Golden Age), Batman was supposed to be about 29. His age seems like an easily solvable problem. You'd think they could just make him a little younger each Crisis like they've been doing. But there are familial complications. Batman raised Dick Grayson from a young age, and Dick appears to be about in his mid-20's by now. So what happens when Dick Grayson has kids, or starts training a ward? Doesn't Tim Drake eventually have to grow up? Batman is in fact being forced to grow older, although still at a decellerated pace. And Bruce Wayne actually can't live forever. This is why, despite my issues with Grant Morrison's take on the franchise, I'm so interested in Batman R.I.P.. :- Billy Arrowsmith, 10:02, 8 July 2008 (UTC) ::Well, I know that Batman used to be thirty-five at the height of his career. Batman: Year One established that Bruce was twenty-five when he returned to Gotham after traveling abroad. He became Batman less than a year later. The timeline from Zero Hour #0 establishes that 10 years have passed since the emergence of the modern age of super-heroes (Bats, Supes, JLA etc.) to the time of Zero Hour (which was published in 1994). Now, what changes have been made to the timeline since then is anyone's guess. --Brian Kurtz 12:41, 8 July 2008 (UTC) Well if you look at publications, Batman and Detective only come out once a month. Most of the stories in each issue take place within 1-3 days. Several issues can actually take place within the same day, So really, we only know have info on about 800-900 days of Batmans life. Now those days are obviously not successive...I am sure that he spends a lot of nights foiling 1 or two muggings or robberies...these are obviously not good enough stories to put into a comic. You can assume that we only see his "highlight reel." As stated above, the last true reboot to continuity was was Zero Hour. Then No-mans land was stated to have lasted a year. There was One year later. And then I think there were a few other indicators (robin turning a year older etc. Speaking of robin...He was 14 or 15 when he started his own series (they made a big deal of getting a licensee to drive the red bird). He is now 17-18. He is finishing up high school. Looking at Dick Grayson is probably the best. He is 13-15 when he starts, in college when he becomes Nightwing, and in his early 20's when he gets his own series. So we know that there is a minimum of 12 years but I would say closer to 15. If Bruce started around 21-25, that would make him 36-40 now. That seems about right as well. On average, since Zero hour, 3 real world years has equaled about 1 comic year. When Bruce is revived (lazarus pit anyone?) He will likely be in prime health (al a Allen Scott). And therefore have another 30 years of crimefighting in him (which translates to 90 years of comics for us). IthinkIwannaLeiaWaddaUthink? 14:55, 1 May 2009 (UTC) It has been confirmed that Bruce is 35 currently. Yes, he was created in 1938, but due to the universe reboot in 1985/86, Batman was made younger. Plus, also, the Bob Cane Batman had died sometime before the 80's. I think it was Earth-One? Citations needed Looks like people love to add abilities to the list, but without citations. Please cite your sources for additions to the article. When making a statement, add the following text afterwards: source of information that way, everyone knows where the info came from. :Roygbiv666 15:31, 12 April 2008 (UTC) Scarecrow knows Batman's Secret Identity? I read this on the page, but I can't for the life of me think of when it would've happened. If it's referring to the events of Batman: Hush, I'm pretty (not entirely) sure Hush and the Riddler kept their stuff DL. I'm going to double check that when my friend gives me back my copy of "Hush Volume 2", but in the meantime, would someone care to provide reference for that? :- Billy Arrowsmith, 10:02, 8 July 2008 (UTC) I'm sure that Scarecrow, Killer Croc, Joker, Harley, Ivy, and Clay Face do not know Batman's identity. Otherwise, he'd be screwed by now... Personality Under Personality, we have the following: :Another identity Batman has used in the past is Matches Malone. Matches Malone was a small time thug who acted as Batman's snitch. When Matches was killed, Batman assumed his identity. As the Matches Malone identity, he was able to access areas of the criminal arena neither Bruce Wayne nor Batman could enter. And :Another identity used by Batman is that of gangster "Matches Malone." Matches was a small-time arsonist who killed his brother and then committed suicide by burning himself to death. Becoming Matches allows Batman to operate within the criminal community as a respected member with preestablished credibility. Which is correct? Anyone know? Cheers, --Jamie 20:33, 22 July 2008 (UTC) ::Both ::but the snitch who was actually as reformed gang boss who had a soft side was introduced WAY back in Batman #242 (1972) during the Earth-One days :: ::the small-time arsonist who killed his brother and then committed suicide by burning himself to death incarnation is the New Earth retcon starting in Batman #588 "The Secret Origin of Matches Malone!" :: ::So if you are specifically talking about the New Earth incarnation it is the arsonist. ::Kal_l_fan 19:07, 25 July 2008 (UTC) Fantastic story by Brian K. Vaughan, it can be casually browsed in most Barnes & Nobles in the collected "Batman: False Faces" along with some other Vaughan gems. :- Billy Arrowsmith, 10:05, 3 August 2008 (UTC) Complete Batman List? Are there any complete comic lists on this site? I need one for all Batman Crossovers. : We have this. Try setting one up. :Roygbiv666 20:23, 25 July 2008 (UTC) ::I'm sorry, I'm not sure exactly what you need. I'm only home for today, in less than twelve hours I'm going back to camp for another two weeks, so I can't be immediately helpful unless you get this by around 1pm EST. But the Batman Storylines category is sort of like a son to me, and I'd help anyway I could. What exactly are you looking for/why? :::- Billy Arrowsmith, 10:05, 3 August 2008 (UTC) I think there should be a list of comics based on Post-Crisis/New Earth continuity, another list on Pre-Crisis/Earth-One and another for Pre-Crisis/Earth-Two. And, mainly just collections/TPBs. If not, and it's a big event (Like in Earth-One, Jason's origin and New Earth's origin for the character.). ~ J. A. R. Head Sin Tzu, citations Dark-Light-Angel 15:19, 9 August 2008 (UTC) As far as I know, Sin Tzu does not exist in New Earth in the DC Universe. He has only ever appeared in the game, 'Rise of Sin Tzu' and in a novelization. Is this story canonical? If not, the statement, Having learned the "Art of War" by Sin Tzu, Batman can formulate amazing strategies. should be deleted immediately. I'd also be glad if someone could clarify the line He has deflected a bullet with a batarang before. for me. Where is the reference for this? I've only ever seen Batman deflect a bullet in the recently released, Gotham Knight. And since this article discusses the New Earth Batman, that doesn't count. :Since we don't know who wrote it, could it mean -- The Art of War (Chinese: 孫子兵法; pinyin: Sūn Zǐ Bīng Fǎ) is a Chinese military treatise that was written during the 6th century BC by Sun Tzu. Composed of 13 chapters, each of which is devoted to one aspect of warfare, it has long been praised as the definitive work on military strategies and tactics of its time. ? Anybody? :Roygbiv666 19:47, 9 August 2008 (UTC) Sin Tzu or Sun Tzu? I agree. Most likely it refers to the books by Sun Tzu. In order to avoid confusion I think we should put in an internal link on The Art of War. Although it may be unnecessary with an internal link...I also think it might be a good idea to revise the sentence a bit. How about: 'Having studied the ancient The Art of War texts by Sun Tzu, Batman has learned how to formulate amazing strategies.' So how about it? Any ideas on how to make it more concise or is that fine? Another suggestion I'd like to make is that we add a section for Batman's suit and equipment. Of particular interest to me is the Suit of Sorrows. It first appeared in Batman: Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul. Its origins were later expounded upon in Detective Comics #842. Apparently increases Batman's speed and strength. Or in more detail: https://www.angelfire.com/mi2/dcuniverse/batequipment.html I am not entirely sure of the reliability of this site so I'm not suggesting we use it as a reference. To my knowledge Detective Comics #842 & Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul are safest references currently available. Does anyone else think the Suit of Sorrows is worth mentioning? :I think the Suit of Sorrows should have its own article or should just be tacked onto the new Azrael's page. He will be the one wearing it for a while, and I doubt it will play a big role in Batmans life (death?) from now on. ::Yeah, I ended up making an article for it here awhile back. :::- Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 15:05, 1 May 2009 (UTC) Major Events I have to admit, I am not all that familiar with the guidlines for Major Character Articles. I recognize that it would be impossible to list all the adventures our heroes have been on. But this Batman article seems a little short. Is it allowable to have a Major event's section before the Recent events section? It would only include main, life changing events in Batman's life that had lasting consequences (e.g. Breaking his back, No man's Land, etc. There really hasn't been that many. I know this opens up the can of worms of, "what is significant," but I think this article has much too little information in it. I will try to review the guidlines but if anyone more knowledgeable has input....IthinkIwannaLeiaWaddaUthink? 15:11, 1 May 2009 (UTC) Well, if we just pin point the MAIN stories of his life from 1987 to now. You can see what I mean in my post down below entitled "More Information..." ~ J. A. R. Head Robin is the new Batman After Wayne's apparent death, Grayson has taken on the role of Batman. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_and_Robin_(comic_book) I don't have the correct info to add this right to the article, but it also questions whether Batman and Bruce Wayne should be separate articles. -- LordTBT Talk! 06:35, 4 June 2009 (UTC) :Check it out, Grayson's page is updated. :— Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 06:56, 4 June 2009 (UTC) ::Ah, I see. It seems that Grayson taking on the role of Batman screws up the site, and WP for that matter, given that "Robin" was a mantle taken up by several characters, thus Robin has an article regarding the mantle itself. Batman was always synonymous with Wayne, and was never considered a "mantle" to be taken up by someone else, thus Wayne and Batman are the same. Now that it is a mantle, it's hard to fix all the redirects and such. -- LordTBT Talk! 07:40, 4 June 2009 (UTC) :::No it's not. It's always been a mantle. It's been a mantle since the first Earth-Two story where Dick Grayson became Batman. And also when Jean-Paul Valley became Batman. And also when Dick Grayson became Batman for the first time (this is the second time he's become Batman in mainstream continuity alone). We already have separate articles here for Bruce Wayne, Richard Grayson, and Batman. No redirects need to be updated. Nothing is screwed up. ::::- Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 07:58, 4 June 2009 (UTC) ::::That's what I thought. At any rate, I think I clicked something and got confused. I did some more clicking and found everything is right as you said. Great job. -- LordTBT Talk! 08:15, 4 June 2009 (UTC) More information... We need more history on Batman. There isn't a whole lot. We got like the first week of him in Gotham and then some recent stuff and his "death" but, other than that, there isn't much that tells people who Batman is. First off, we need to change "Returning to Gotham in his early twenties" to "Returning to Gotham at the age of eighteen" since it has been confirmed by R. I. P./Batman and Robin writer, in a interview with Wizard magazine, that he started his career at the age of eighteen. Due to this page being "New Earth" we need to include information on him during "Year One", "Monstermen", "Mad Monk", "The Man Who Laughs", "Four of a Kind", "Year One: Batman/Scarecrow", "Year One: Batman/Ra's Al Ghul", "The Long Halloween", "Two-Face: Year One" (Depending if he's in it...), "Dark Victory", "Robin: Year One", "Batgirl: Year One", and "Nightwing: Year One"! Not only that, but Jason Todd's second origin needs to be included along with "Killing Joke", "Death in the Family", and the "Knightfall" trilogy along with whatever led up to the event. Also, whatever important events between some of these events. Along with Bruce's and Dick's relationship from when Dick is 12-17 years of age including he perminant joining with the Teen Titans and Bruce's perminant firing of Dick. Also, his involvment in "JLA: Year One" and "Trinity" also, his first meeting of Superman in the story from the "Man of Steel" short-series from 1985. Also, some of the important stories from "Legends of the Dark Knight" and "Batman Confidential"! C'mon, guys! If this is a Wikia page, it needs more information for those who are curious! For the new readers who want to learn more and stuff! I was a little disapointed at this page when I first saw it. No offence. But, Superman and all the other characters have histories on theres while Batman has... Really nothing... ~ J. A. R. Head Good and all, but... It's good that we added new information about his whereabouts after his death and that stuff, but again... COULD WE GET MORE INFORMATION ABOUT WHEN HE WAS LIVING!? It's all in my above rant about what information NEEDS to be included! You can find what I'm talking about above in the post "More Information..." J. A. R. Head 23:26, December 12, 2009 (UTC) :J.A.R.? Are you aware that you can add the information you're asking for, also? I've been reading your comments on numerous pages and I agree with what you're saying but I'm not sure if you realize that we're all volunteers also. None of us are professional DC Comics historians (at least that I know of). I'd add the information you're suggesting myself if I could but I don't have that knowledge. I don't have near the comic collection to even begin to make sense of the history of Batman. So most of us, I suspect, add what we can where we can. I certainly don't want to douse your enthusiasm, we could certainly use it, but you need to know that you're preaching to the choir here. We know there're gaps and we're fixing what we can. Rather than tell us what needs fixed, you'd be better off trying to fix it yourself and we'll help out when we can. --WolfordMnemsis 01:45, December 13, 2009 (UTC) LOL, oh! I thought we all had to discuss it before we could make changes. Well, okay. Unfortunately, I have enough troubles trying to figure out how to use the Wikia. There are SOOOO many butons and I'm new to Wikias. I don't know how to download/upload pictures to my computer or how to even put them up on the Wikia. And I only know what I know from what I've read on sites and this wikia along with Wikipedia. I actiually don't go to the comic shop as much. But I consider myself SOMETHING of a comic historian. I just don't know everything. I know as much as a I know. J. A. R. Head 03:18, December 13, 2009 (UTC) :It wasn't all that long ago I was in your shoes. Most of the regulars here will attest that I've pestered them with many a stupid question. It does seem very overwhelming at first but you'll pick up a skill here and there and, pretty soon, you'll be rocking and rolling like the rest of us. Pick a person or issue you think you can contribute to and give it a shot. We'll jump in to help and, if worse comes to worst, the powers that be can undo any changes we make with a click of their mighty mouse!!!! --WolfordMnemsis 03:26, December 13, 2009 (UTC) Okay, well could you guys help me now? I'm looking for some info on the story Batman: Four of a Kind which is a four part collected story based on the origins of Riddler, Poison Ivy, Man-Bat, and Scarecrow. I looked at Detective Comics anual#8, and no synthosis for Riddler's origin which doesn't help much... J. A. R. Head 03:32, December 13, 2009 (UTC) :Well, the issues involved are: Detective Comics Annual Vol 1 8, Batman: Shadow of the Bat Annual Vol 1 3, Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight Annual Vol 1 5 and Batman Annual Vol 1 19. Click on the links but I don't think they're all populated with the info you're looking for. --WolfordMnemsis 03:44, December 13, 2009 (UTC) Thanks, I'm currently editing now. I already got "Year One" covered and "The Man Who Laughs" along with the stories based during "Year One", "Monster Men" and "The Mad Monk". Although, I may need someone to go back and expand on what I've written on "Monster Men" and "Mad Monk", when I'm finished, because I couldn't find anything but short discriptions that didn't help much to explain those parts of Bruce's life. Now, I guess I'll head into the "Four of a Kind" storyline and put those down. Thanks. Also, if anyone could help me expand with events between the graphic novels (Which are mainly stories featured in "Legends of the Bat" and "Batman Confidential") could you place those where they need to be? That is, if you know when they occur? Or maybe we could make a section called "Other adventures" and put some of the main events that occur in the stories. Just a opinion. J. A. R. Head 04:52, December 13, 2009 (UTC) Finished, but not all the way... Okay, I've posted most of Batman's history for the past several hours. Although I have filled out a lot of Batman's life, there are parts under "To be edited...", meaning there IS a story there but there was not a story cited on any site. If someone could come up and fill in the spots that have "To be edited" under them along with filling out the sources as well, hence why Scarecrow, out of the four (Riddler, Man-Bat, Poison Ivy, and Scarecrow) was the only one in the story "Four of a Kind" who's first battle with Batman is cited. Please, if there are any early adventures that are big in Batman's history (The early history can be found in the titles Legends of the Dark Knight (1989-2007) and Batman Confidential (2007-)) or any stories I missed between the events I listed, please put them in there chronicaled areas. And like I said before, fill in the places I didn't fill in and say "To be edited..."! J. A. R. Head 08:41, December 13, 2009 (UTC) :Nicely done, J.A.R.! It looks fantastic! Just in the interest in helping you become a better contributor let me point out two things: 1) the biggest drawback of the wiki system, in my opinion, is there's no spellcheck function. I see you've copied most of your text, which is great by the way - no need to reinvent the wheel, but if you write a good bit yourself, what I do is copy and paste it into a word document, run the spellcheck function then replace it into wiki. 2) Especially for characters like Batman and Superman who have been around for a very long time, we need to keep the pages to a manageable length. I like how you've divided the history into the highlights of his career - exactly right! Long term we may need to streamline the text within each section as the history is likely to continue on forever. The nice thing about wiki is, if we get it to the proper place in the future, all the details here will be in the individual issue entries also and we can create links for those who want to know more. But as I said before, this looks fantastic! Be proud! --WolfordMnemsis 13:28, December 13, 2009 (UTC) Thanks, Wolford! I quite enjoyed going through and looking for some of the information and rereading some of what I've read once already! I'll make sure to fill out that Supergirl section, although I didn't last night. I read the comic some time ago. Great story! Jeph Loeb should stick with DC. But, like I said, this isn't all of it. I had to skip some important events that came around in the 90's around the time of "No Man's Land". Also, the "To be edited..." sections need to be replaced with some history. I know there is some. And I know Batman helped, somewhat, along with Flash, Aquaman, and Wonder Woman, in encouraging the teens into becoming a team and continuing on. I read that somewhere! Also, I may have skiped events in Batman's early few year. I also, kinda, need some pics. But, over all, I am proud of what I have put together! Thanks! J. A. R. Head 14:01, December 13, 2009 (UTC) :A much needed history, nice work. Here is a list of Batman storylines for your reference, some are probably Earth-One, so you'd have to check them out. Maybe some of the sections could be made into sub-sections as you did with Knightfall? Personally, I prefer a link to the specific issue or storyarc, with just maybe a paragraph for each arc in the character entry, but good to see it filled in. :: 00:35, December 23, 2009 (UTC) Thanks! It took me some time. Around eight hours. But, it was worth it. I quite enjoy the character. Always been a fan since I was little. When I saw this I was a little disapointed that there wasn't anything here. But, I'd also like to thank the guys who added link to the page. I wasn't sure how to do it. I still need some of the history behind Batman's involvment in the first Teen Titans team (Featured in Teen Titans: Year One). Along with the stories (Which links provided above in this section) of Riddler's, Poison Ivy's, and Man-Bat's first battles with Batman. But, thanks again. :D J. A. R. Head 03:05, December 24, 2009 (UTC) :Looks like there are some issues with synopses, some without: Teen Titans: Year One Vol 1 1 doesn't have one, but Teen Titans: Year One Vol 1 2 does. These might help. :Whenever you can't figure out how somebody did something, have a look at a page with something you want to do, go into Edit mode, and see what kind of code they put around the text. Links are easy, just put two square brackets on either side of the text you want to link to. You can also change the way the name of the link is displayed by adding the pipe symbol (usually located above the "back slash" on the keyboard. So, you can link to Batman by adding the brackets like this: Batman. You can change the way the link is displayed by adding the pipe and how you want it to look: Greatest Superhero in the Universe, Ever!!. :: 16:19, December 24, 2009 (UTC) Thanks for the little bit of info! I appreciate it! :D But, unfortunately, I've never read TT: Year One at all. So, it would be hard for me to do any sort of editing on it. But I do remember reading something about Bruce, Barry, DIana, and Aquaman supporting the TT in some way. I forgot what it was, though... not sure if that's right anyway.... J. A. R. Head 18:42, December 24, 2009 (UTC) Article Overhaul Personally, I think his entry is a bit of a mess (J. A. R. Head's massive work notwithstanding) and could benefit from an overhaul to shorten the history sections with links to the storylines, and either providing proper citations or deleting all the unsupported material. Ideas? :Roygbiv666 -- 16:21, January 16, 2010 (UTC) ::I'm working on it. :::- Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 06:59, March 26, 2010 (UTC) Marriage Okay, let's talk Son of the Demon. Ra's al Ghul performed an official marriage ceremony on Batman and Talia al Ghul in DC Special Series Vol 1 15. He didn't consent to it, and it happened while he was drugged, so he didn't really consider it valid. But then in Son of the Demon when he actually got into a serious relationship with Talia, he intended to marry her officially, but when she explained that they were already married he accepted that. And then they had hot sex (this time not involving him punching her out, unlike their honeymoon) and conceived a child. Son of the Demon was OOC after Zero Hour, but Infinite Crisis seems to have brought it back in a slightly mutated form. Grant Morrison got some details wrong and blamed Superboy-Prime punching reality (love that retcon). Batman claims to have basically been raped... but it's not clear as to whether this meant the entire encounter leading to the pregnancy, or simply the lack of birth control... he probably meant to finish with some Head of the Demon if you know what I mean. Anyway, my point is... should we list Talia in his relatives section? Does she clarify for Talia al Ghul (ex-wife)? :- Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 06:59, March 26, 2010 (UTC) I guess so. But you have to remember Talia was more involved in their relationship with Bruce than visa versa.--Batman007 (talk) 02:58, January 19, 2013 (UTC) Timeline I can't seem to find any canonical resource determining what time Batman joined the Justice League in present continuity. Was it before or after the introduction of Robin? was he a member of the League throughout all of Long Halloween? I would appreciate any light shed on the subject, or even further speculation. all I really need is like a panel of Robin being introduced to Superman to figure this out. :- Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 18:43, April 5, 2010 (UTC) ::In Batman/Superman/Wonder Woman: Trinity #2, where Batman met Wonder Woman, Superman throws a wink to a spying Dick. If this is still in continuity after Infinite Crisis, this would indicate that Robin was active when the League first formed. -- SFH 19:31, April 5, 2010 (UTC) Picture Change? can i PLEASE change that outdated profile pic now that Bruce is back with a new costumeAvenging-X-Bolt 15:12, September 7, 2010 (UTC) :I'd say not yet. At least wait until Return of Bruce Wayne is over and he has actually shown up in that suit. -- [[User:Tupka217|Tupka]][[User talk:Tupka217|''217]] 15:16, September 7, 2010 (UTC) ::Which new costume are we talking about? :::- Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 16:54, September 7, 2010 (UTC) :::This one. It's what he's going to wear to distinguish himself from Dick. Note the yellow shield, the blue pinstripes, and the lack of undies. -- '[[User:Tupka217|Tupka']][[User talk:Tupka217|217]] 21:59, September 7, 2010 (UTC) I'm definitely open to debate on this subject but I would rather have the "new costume" image be in the section about the period where he's wearing the costume. this article is supposed to provide a complete historical perspective on the character. that means the main image should be his most recognizable costume, not whatever he happens to be wearing any given week. especially because he has a shitload of batsuits. this is also the logic behind not using Black Lantern pictures as main images. it's less confusing this way for casual readers. :- Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 23:23, September 7, 2010 (UTC) :I agree that the picture needs to come down. Only a die hard fan will understand the image. We want to reach out to those that do not know about Batman and the first thing they want is to see the same guy on the bio that is in the pages of the comic. He hasn't worn that costume in some time. His new Batman Inc. costume is what he will be wearing for the foreseeable future and his bio should reflect that.Wazzirving 20:36, November 24, 2010 (UTC)wazzirving ::While I am not vehemently against a picture change, I do not think you reasoning applies. The Batman is the Batman: grey and black. Seeing a slightly older image does not make him any less recognizable. The batsuit underwent several changes over the years (sometimes from artist to artist), but none were as big as, say, Dick Grayson's costume changes. It's always grey and black, with a cape and cowl. ::His bio can reflect the fact he's wearing the new suit; by placing the image at the section describing the era, like Billy stated above. -- '[[User:Tupka217|Tupka']][[User talk:Tupka217|217]] 20:44, November 24, 2010 (UTC) :Thanks for the quick response. I do agree with the ideology that your stating, but I'm simply "dumbing" it down for younger audiences. I remember when I first began reading comics and when I started to see different costumes for the same character, it became confusing. I wasn't aware if they were the same characters or not in some instances. Roy Harper is a character who's costume makes drastic changes as well as code names. Although, Bruce's aren't as extreme, it was still confusing for a teenager to try and figure out why every medium had the blue and grey Batman while I was reading a book with Jean-Paul Valley in the suit. Until I got a book where he unmasked himself, I was lost. I just want for someone to pick-up a book and understand that this is the right bio for Bruce. It would probably also help if we put a pick in the bio around the same time he wore that particular suit. Check Jean Grey-Summers on the marvel wikia to see what I mean. I put a pick next to every costume change I could.Wazzirving 20:59, November 24, 2010 (UTC)wazzirving ::We put a picture next to the actual costume change in the history section... by this logic, I'm far more concerned with confusing anyone who starts reading Batman at any point other than the current monthly comics, which is how most people get into Batman... if it's that confusing, hopefully they'll read text on the page and that will clear things up. :::- Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 06:43, November 29, 2010 (UTC) :::I believe that the main image should reflect the current look of the character. Also, in this instance, Bruce and Dick are currently operating under the same alias and it could very easily become confusing to a new reader. I am not the only in my circle that feel this way. The point is: If I just watched a movie or just decided to pick-up a book of Batman and I wanted to understand his back story, I would come to this site and, depending on my age and intelligence, might get confused. Tupka217 stated that Batman will always be Batman, with the gray and blue, but that is not the case here. The subject is that if I want to know the difference between the two and have no patience, I might be confused. The main image should reflect Bruce and Dick's main image should reflect his current costume. Assume I don't know comics and I want to figure-out Batman from the discombobulation page, I might go to about three different ones because not one of them looks like the Azreal, Batman Incorporated, Batman The Dark Knight, or Streets of Gotham Bat suite. Bruce's current main image actually looks more like Dick. ::::--Wazzirving 00:52, March 6, 2011 (UTC)Wazzirving Return of Bruce Wayne versus The Road Home Hey, these were both great stories... they're also pretty incompatible. Bruce rushing right into the fight with Doctor Hurt and seeing everyone again right after fighting the entire Justice League doesn't really mesh with him quietly showing up and nobody realizing it. Obviously they're both in continuity and I'm sure we're going to see a lot of elements from both stories picked up... but can anybody think of a way that they can be reconciled against each other? :- Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 06:43, November 29, 2010 (UTC) Is time to change that picture Bruce Wayne, has a new costume now. M6669 December 24, 2010 :Hello... someone is there? If nobody oppose within 24 hours, I'll change, :Thanks M6669 December 25, 2010 ::Maybe a change, but not that image. -- '[[User:Tupka217|Tupka']][[User talk:Tupka217|217]] 14:30, December 25, 2010 (UTC) :::Do you have a suggestion? M6669 December 25, 2010 ::::File:Batman 0193.jpg? -- '[[User:Tupka217|Tupka']][[User talk:Tupka217|217]] 15:52, December 25, 2010 (UTC) :::::Fine by me. M6669 December 25, 2010 Updated image? I think that the main image on this article should be changed so that it shows Bruce in his new costume. ::: I disagree... how many costumes has Bruce had? How long is this one going to last? Iconic characters should have as their main image an iconic image; unless their role has actually changed (such as Dick with a Batman costume right now in his article). Bruce is Batman, and he's wearing a generic Batman costume in his main picture, that's enough; and there's mention (and pictures) of his current costume in the current happenings section of the article. Also, read this section of this same discussion: https://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Batman_(Bruce_Wayne)#Picture_Change.3F MaGnUs 19:17, February 1, 2011 (UTC) New costume, new image? Since the DCnU has introduced yet another Batman costume (which will probably last more than the Batman Inc. costume did), I think that the image should be changed to this image to represent not only the new costume, but the new universe as well. Alf.gonzalez 21:30, September 17, 2011 (UTC) :Well, if nobody objects to the image change in 24 hours I'll take that as a "sure, go ahead" Alf.gonzalez 00:54, September 19, 2011 (UTC) ::I object, as amatter of fact. I don't think it's been decided yet if DCnU characters will get new pages (I say they should). In any case, I refer to my response in the previous topic (above this one): Batman has had dozens of costumes, having the most current one is not as important as having an iconic one. MaGnUs 00:58, September 19, 2011 (UTC) ::: I don't especially like the image you've chosen. It HAS been decided not to make new pages for characters, BUT I don't think it's necessary to throw up a new image when the page represents the entire history. Like the rest of the page, costume changes are noted with images within the character history. Just look at the page and see for yourself. - Hatebunny 01:18, September 19, 2011 (UTC) ::::No new DCnU pages? Ugh. MaGnUs 10:39, September 19, 2011 (UTC) :The stories pick up directly after in continuity. Some of them even talk specifically about ''Brightest Day. It would be silly to make entirely new pages, and it would be more confusing to new readers than it would be worth. ::- Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 14:04, September 19, 2011 (UTC) :::I'm well aware that, particularly in the Bat-books' case, the stories pick up directly after in continuity. But I disagree about them staying in the same page, because they're still different continuities (even if they share past elements), when many DCnU characters are very, very different. A lot of things were carried over from before to after COIE, yet they were different characters. MaGnUs 14:18, September 19, 2011 (UTC) :::ARE YOU GUYS GOING TO GIVE HIM A NEW PIC FOR HIS 52 ERA Picture I think it's kind of silly to have Batgirl, Superman, Superboy, Nightwing, and Red Robin's picture changed to the newest incarnation of the character if Batman's isn't. Batman has the most comic book series out of all of them, which most likely means his new suit will become more well-known. [[User:Deadpool75|'Deadpool75: ']][[User talk:Deadpool75|''' Leave a message or die']] 04:02, October 31, 2011 (UTC) :It's under the appropriate section in the history. ::- Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 05:20, October 31, 2011 (UTC) :I know but it's still odd to have all of the others' main pictures as their newest costume but not Batman. [[User:Deadpool75|'Deadpool75: ]][[User talk:Deadpool75| Leave a message or die']] 17:00, October 31, 2011 (UTC) :Batman's new costume is the old one with some lines added. No big difference. Hardly confusing. --'[[User:Tupka217|Tupka']][[User talk:Tupka217|217]] 17:17, October 31, 2011 (UTC) Updated image of Batman? I changed the Batman image on Batman(bruce wayne) page to an image that is in more recent comics. Please don't revert it. -User talk:Mikel k-g :Duplicate, badly named, no template, and no discussion? Of course I reverted it. --'[[User:Tupka217|Tupka']][[User talk:Tupka217|217]] 17:55, December 18, 2011 (UTC) Batman's Religion Many comic book fans regard Batman as an atheist or agnostic, albeit one who has personally witnessed the fact that powerful god-like entities and gods of mythological pantheons actually exist. Batman has appeared in literally thousands of stories, and not all of these are in agreement with regards to the character's theological views. On rare occasions, stories have been published in which Batman has simply identified himself as an atheist or a Christian. It is reasonable to assume that, as with other people, Batman's precise beliefs, spirituality and relationship to God vary over the years, and sometimes shift depending on his experiences. The religious aspects of Batman's character also vary depending on the writer. HavenLuvsTheRage 04:40, May 1, 2012 (UTC) :It can vary, depending on the writer mostly. It can do with more research, but it would have to be properly sourced. --'[[User:Tupka217|Tupka']][[Message wall:Tupka217|217]] 07:12, May 1, 2012 (UTC) ::Someone has edited the Batman page and added "Batman is a self-proclaimed atheist" under trivia, but I do not think that should be stated. The excerpt provided with it is of one panel written by one of the hundreds of writers who have tackled Batman and who have written their own perspectives on Batman's religion based on their preferences. I found this page https://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Batman.html along with this one https://www.comicbookreligion.com/?c=2&Batman_Bruce_Wayne to be informative in showing that even if Batman isn't necessarily a religious guy, he is not technically an atheist, or at least, he is not always portrayed as an atheist as many have displayed him in a more Catholic light and as the webpages suggest, he may be a lapsed Catholic, but I think he still has some lingering beliefs that there is a God out there. I don't think Batman's religion should be stated/confirmed on the page, and so I suggest that that statement be removed completely as his religion was never made definitive. That is just my humble opinion.--Samitabbara (talk) 20:19, August 1, 2012 (UTC) :::We have been shown those links SEVERAL times. We don't consider their analysis to be convincing evidence to counter an on-panel statement. - Hatebunny (talk) 20:33, August 1, 2012 (UTC) ::::To be fair, Adherents offers far more than just analysis. For example, an on-panel shot of him praying. Does that also not counter the on-panel statement? Last time I checked, Dark Detective was just as much canon as JLA. ::::The more I read into this, the more I agree with Amitabarra. We shouldn't mention it, or at least not just one panel, a throwaway remark, and ignore the rest. He has been portrayed as both. So we don't list him as an atheist or a Christian, but as "It's simply not that simple". ::::I think we should do without any mention to it, and only provide a link to Adherents in the links section (we already do). Their article might contain a lot of conjecture, word-of-god, analysis and focus on an elseworld, but they still raise more valid points than the one rather blunt statement we have. Or had. I'm removing it. --'[[User:Tupka217|Tupka']][[Message wall:Tupka217|217]]' 16:53, August 4, 2012 (UTC) :::Edit - so, I checked Dark Detective #2. It's not an actual prayer, it could also be a repetition of his oath (which is, in fact, more likely). Nonetheless, I still stand by "It's simply not that simple". --'[[User:Tupka217|Tupka']][[Message wall:Tupka217|''217]]' 20:03, August 4, 2012 (UTC) :Let me just state up front: this is a controversial issue. :Of course, there are many, many cooks. The current info is a bit short, and it should definitely be expanded. :CB Religion does not offer any primary evidence. :Adherents has a lot of interpretations, some can be waved away - there is simply no continuity when it comes to the gravestones, everyone portrays them differently. Words from creators should definitely be included, but the question is, which ones? Moore and Dixon are cited here to support two positions, but what others? Maybe there's a one issue writer who considers him Zoroastrian? When are you qualified to speak about his religion in a word-of-god (excusez le mot) kind of way? :I have no problem with a rewrite stating his religion is not always portrayed consistently, and that his current religious affiliation (if he has any) is undetermined. But it would have to be with primary sources mostly. --'[[User:Tupka217|Tupka']][[Message wall:Tupka217|''217]]' 20:48, August 1, 2012 (UTC) :Reading Adherents: ::Miller is the author of such character-defining modern Batman stories as Batman: Year One (largely the basis for the movie Batman '''Returns') and The Dark Knight Returns'' :lolwut. Well I guess he did attend a Christmas party with Selena in that... talk2ty 16:46, April 27, 2014 (UTC) Who is Batman? This sounds very stupid first reading it. But the real question is who is Batman during Batman Inc. Is it Bruce, Dick or Both? And if both do alternate or do they both become Dark Knight at same time? And if they Alternate how do they do it? --Batman007 (talk) 03:02, January 19, 2013 (UTC) :Bruce is the primary Batman during Batman Incorporated, he's the main character in that title. However, Dick is still the Batman of Gotham just as he has other Batman agents around the world. They're both Batman at the same time but Dick stays in Gotham and Bruce travels the world. Of course this is a moot point now as Grayson has returned to his role of Nightwing since Traps and Trapezes. ::- Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 08:18, January 19, 2013 (UTC) Forbest Fictional 15 By any record, that's no official number. So essentially, it's fan fic. Also, technically 2012 and 2013 would be Prime Earth Bats. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 14:12, January 20, 2014 (UTC) Separate Prime Earth page Okay, I know I had this talk on the superman page, but Batman really needs a Prime Earth page for himself too. There is out-of universe information in this page and most of Batman's history in the New Earth continuity isn't consistent or even canon in Prime Earth's continuity. Is there a page being planned for Batman (Bruce Wayne)? If there is, what is the progress of this page? Please reply. -Pokemonmewtwos) : I belive one of the admins is working on that. Here. - S.S. (talk) 17:41, August 22, 2014 (UTC) - New Earth That's not the main Batman anymore. So, I think that page should be moved to Bruce Wayne (New Earth).--Primestar3 (talk) 19:29, January 25, 2015 (UTC) :The move suggestion can wait until the Prime Earth page is done. - Byfield (talk) 19:36, January 25, 2015 (UTC) ::The page is already done. Batman (Bruce Wayne).S.S. (talk) 19:40, January 25, 2015 (UTC) :::It exists. It's not done. Also, it requires larger discussion because this is not the only case. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 19:52, January 25, 2015 (UTC) ::::Isn't this the kind of thing that should be discussed in the Prime Earth Project page?GZilla311 (talk) 20:03, January 25, 2015 (UTC) :::::Either that or the forums.--[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 20:08, January 25, 2015 (UTC) Bruce Wayne (New Earth) Shouldn't this be the page's title rather than Batman (Bruce Wayne)? And I don't know if there's been some discussion about it, I'm no old time editor on this Wiki, I'm just a person doing some research on DC comics, and as a reader it's confusing, since it's the only hero page to have this format for the title.--Kombatgod (talk) 14:17, March 6, 2015 (UTC) : This should answer your questions. TheD3xus (talk) 14:40, March 6, 2015 (UTC) ::Short version: we haven't really sat down to discuss how to deal with SEO pagenames. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 14:48, March 6, 2015 (UTC) Bruce Wayne's middle name According to someone in this thread https://archive.li/ql3dc, Bruce Wayne was given the middle name Anthony in the RPG book The Daily Planet Guide to Gotham City. Can anyone confirm is this is true? We may have finally discovered the middle name of the New Earth Batman. --NetSpiker (talk) 09:32, December 9, 2016 (UTC) Alternatively, New Earth Batman's middle name could be Patrick. The novel Wayne of Gotham gives his full name as Bruce Patrick Wayne and mentions his relationship with Sasha Bordeaux and him being implicated in the death of Vesper Fairchild. As far as I know, these events only happened in the New Earth continuity. --NetSpiker (talk) 12:54, December 27, 2016 (UTC) The novel Wayne of Gotham also mentions other events specific to the New Earth continuity, such as Barbara Gordon being crippled by the Joker, Fay Moffit shooting Delbert Billings in the head and Thomas Wayne's father being named Patrick. I'm not certain about whether or not the novel takes place in the New Earth continuity, but it's definitely part of the same continuity family. For this reason, I've added the middle name Patrick to the article. If you disagree, please discuss. --NetSpiker (talk) 10:42, March 15, 2017 (UTC) :Seeing as there are two conflicting accounts, both from licensed byproducts. In such a case, neither should be listed in the infobox, but explained in the notes section. After someone verifies both. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 10:59, March 15, 2017 (UTC) It's very common for a character to have two contradictory names, even in the same continuity. Guy Darrin Gardner became Guy Joseph Gardner and then went back to Guy Darrin Gardner. Helena Janice Bertinelli became Helena Rosa Bertinelli. Ernesto Reyes become Alberto Reyes. Agnes Bellinger became Crystal Brown. Willard Ferris became Carl Ferris. In all these examples, the new name takes precedence over the older name, which is usually listed as an alias. In this case, the newest name is Bruce Patrick Wayne. And I'm still not sure if the Anthony middle name was actually mentioned in The Daily Planet Guide to Gotham City as I haven't been able to find a copy of the book. --NetSpiker (talk) 11:14, March 15, 2017 (UTC) :Those are cases where it's been consistently different. These are just two individual mentions and neither is used ever again. Much like Etta Olive/Marie Candy. -- [[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 11:50, March 15, 2017 (UTC) What do you mean by "consistently different"? --NetSpiker (talk) 12:37, March 15, 2017 (UTC) :I mean, the new name was used consistently. With Bruce's middle name, it's not used, at all. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 13:16, March 15, 2017 (UTC) I don't agree with the notion that a name needs to be used more than once to be considered valid. Sanjeet Bhatia's name was only mentioned in one comic. Previously, she had been called Sanjeet Rey or Sanjeet Gupta. --NetSpiker (talk) 12:10, March 17, 2017 (UTC) :It's nice that you don't agree with something I never said. Both names are equally valid. :As for Chimera, that's a separate discussion that might lead to a change in the page. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 12:21, March 17, 2017 (UTC) Sorry, I must've misunderstood your earlier comment. --NetSpiker (talk) 12:44, March 17, 2017 (UTC) :I went ahead and mentioned "Patrick" in the Trivia section. I did not mention "Anthony" since that is still unconfirmed. -- Shadzane �� (talk) 23:36, November 6, 2018 (UTC) Joe Chill Post-Crisis Back in 2004 on one the newsgroups I cited a Batman book that when Batman is talking about the murder of his parents we see "Joe Chill" on the computer. I don't remember the book but if anyone else does it would help updating the information as the note regarding Joe Chill needs to be fixed.--BruceGrubb (talk) 18:29, December 31, 2016 (UTC) :I've found it. It was .--BruceGrubb (talk) 11:48, January 2, 2017 (UTC) First post-Crisis Batman: Detective #567 or Batman #401? Quoting from the notes section: :Batman's first appearance is in . The last appearance of the Earth-One Batman was in . That would mean first Post-Crisis Batman appearance in New Earth continuity would be , the first Batman comic after Batman #400. However, some argue that, since the story in Detective Comics #567 had been under production for years, (a Legends crossover) should be seen as the true start of the New Earth Batman. One user who is in the "Batman #401 is the first post-crisis issue" camp keeps on editing the page, and I keep on undoing his edits because I think something that big should be discussed first. And since he isn't starting the discussion, I guess I will (even though I don't care much). So what does everyone think? Shadzane �� (talk) 00:36, November 13, 2018 (UTC) :I don't really care either way, but I'll give some input anyway. Tec 567 could be considered technically the first Post-Crisis Batman comic since it came after Batman 400, which is the official ending to the Pre-Crisis Batman. However, because Tec 567 was the last issue by Pre-Crisis Batman team (editor Len Wein and artist Gene Colan); most believe it shouldn't be considered as Post-Crisis. Makes sense if we consider the creative team switch. All that said, in my opinion, the story in Tec 567 doesn't necessarily fit in any continuity and could be taken as a stand-alone Batman tale of any regular universe. - S.S. (talk) 01:55, November 13, 2018 (UTC) ::Who wrote that note? "Batman" 401 is considered Batman's first post-Crisis appearance elsewhere, and I agree. For example: :: Crushing Krisis: The Definitive Guide to Collecting Batman Comics :: comicbookdb.com: Batman (DC)(03 - Post-Crisis) ::Varese (talk) 12:41, December 18, 2018 (UTC) :::Actually, your first example says the post-Crisis Batman first appeared in , which is a little weird.... Either way, neither site explains why they picked Batman #401 over 'Tec #567... :::Also, I wrote that note, but only to explain why we had 'Tec #567 as the first appearance. I am not the one who put in 'Tec #567 as first. I tried yesterday to look that up in the History (not because I cared who; I was interested in when), but I gave up because this page has too much history! -- Shadzane �� (talk) 20:35, December 18, 2018 (UTC)